Really interesting, great points made. I don't think pop chart doomerism is particularly useful however, the argument that complexity reduces in one area to increase in another explains these trends is hardly more provable than 'music is just getting worse'. That being said, I do think that being honest it may really just be that the mid-60s to mid-70s was a golden period in pop music. While the 50s are included in this study I would argue pop music as we now know it didn't really exist until the likes of The Beatles came along. Early Beatles music, for the most part, is not more interesting than top-chart music today. The chord progressions are a little more interesting but the lyrics are generally terrible, the songs are fairly generic, and none of them are particularly great instrumentalists. It's only on Help and Rubber Soul that they start to change and do really interesting things, the rest is history. I think it's possible that the incredible fragmentation in pop-music over the last few decades has lead to top-chart songs being more generic and 'lowest common denominator' songwriting. Banal and bland have always had more mass appeal than risky, interesting, experimental, and introspective. Are we really going to try to claim that Bon Jovi are particularly more interesting than Sabrina Carpenter or Beyoncé etc? I think that's a tough case to make.
Rap sucks but now there is worse music than rap like hiphop and other similar shit like electronic music by lazy musicians. Ladies dressed like whores with shity electronic music with fake excessive bass and singer speaking instead of singing
It is getting worse even after it was crap already. Its just electronic repetitive noise with artificial bass. Music is melody and rythm is for savages
If it lacks diversity, it will stay entertaining for only so long. People will age out of it, then it’ll become the Axe Body Spray of genres until it changes, then it’d be back.
What people tend to forget is that “pop” music is a descriptive genre more than a prescriptive, especially when we use it in this context. So, it’s not that pop music has gotten simpler, rather simple music has become popular.
(Yes I watched the video, I know we dove deeper than that, I’m just riffing on the title)
The people complaining about what's happening with music today would have also complained as classical gave way to romantic (and then to impressionist, if one believes that was a thing)
I realize from the 200th to the 203rd decade(1991-2K 2001-10 2011-20 and 2021-30). I was born 1996 music wasn’t terrible in 96 we didn’t have the Spice Girls even though they debut album was in 1996 but Wannabe wasn’t big hit until 1997. We still had grunge and alternative rock with old school rap. So try 193rd-99th decades(1921-30 1931-40 1941-50 1051-60 1961-70 1971-80 1081-90) I don’t know why people still use inaccurate decades like the roaring twenties 30s 40s 50s 70s 70s 80s 90s 2Ks 10s 20s when there was never a year zero in the zgregorian calendar. This why on the Year 2000 people were disappointed to learn that the millennial won’t actually occur until the following year in 2001. With Y2K putting people into a frenzy over the year and number 00. Many have been in c complete panic over the date as doomsday clock ticks and will stoke at mkdnight on Y2K. As people are panicking over the year Y2K thinking somehow thibe will go back to 1900. Literally people thought they were going to die with the panic button on high alert for Y2K. Turns out the panic and hype silvers all a big mistake and not even worth all the buzz. Plus this is why I say two thousand and ten than twenty ten as the 201st decade was 2001-10 yet zi say twenty-eleven because 2011 was the start of the 202nd decade of the zgregorian calendar. The 20th century was 1901-2K and 21st century is 2001-21H(K for Kilo as in thousand and H as in hundred).
Honestly, I don't think anyone who uses their ears would find the results of this study surprising. This shift of focus from melody and harmony to rhythm and timbre has been quite obvious.
It's a bit weird that people can't talk about obvious stuff like this without starting a debate about the "decline" of pop music. Of course there are a lot of boomers who argue that "things used to be so much better", but also, a lot of people get super defensive about this stuff, even if no one makes any "boomer claims".
But the truth is, pop has never been the height of musical complexity, and musical complexity is not the reason why anyone listens to pop music any way. Pop is meant to be catchy, fun and danceable. So, I don't see why its lack of complexity needs to be defended.
It actually makes a lot of sense that pop has shifted its focus away from melodies, because other elements probably matter more to people who just want to have fun. Instead of writing a proper (complete) melody, most pop uses melodic hooks. So, one part of the song has a really catchy melody (or melodic phrase) that stays in your mind. But the other "less important parts" focus on other elements. It's about being efficient – you do what is necessary to make the song a catchy hit. Writing a song that focuses on melody all the time is actually not very efficient, because most people are only going to care about the chorus melody any way.
So cool to see this use for Markov chains in a completely different area from where I’m used to seeing them! I’ll have to dive into that paper when I have a chance
It is getting worse though. But it's not just music, rather art in general. One of the many side effects of neoliberalism. It's the triple A game, the FIFA "X", the MCU, Taylor swift.
Pop has been optimised as a consumer product. Technically (in music, mixing and mastering wise) it is very well-made. But it has no "soul" to speak of. It is deliberately safe, and adjusted to appeal to the widest range of consumers. As profit is the main concern in the creative process there, authenticity dies.
This trend will only continue, probably exponentially so, with the rapid development of audio-generating AI.
The fact that so many clowns repeat the same Rick Beato joke in this comment section makes me more depressed than my own disinterest in most pop music, cuz it shows how utterly media illiterate and superficial most pop consumers are.
I don't think we're going to be able to predict the patterns in pop music accurately. The accessibility of both making and publishing music is so much different than even a decade ago and it's only getting easier. The visual elements from artists are almost as important as the sound of the music and what the internet latches onto us so quick moving. I think pop music is just going to continue to be a fun roller coaster.
My thoughts at 4:50: Ok so rap. Rap fits the description. Ska starts playing Wait is it ska I love ska it’s my favorite genre! Mic: It’s rap. Thang it! I’ve never been angrier at being right.
I remember feeling this way when Del Ray’s Summertime Sadness came out on the radio with the heavy back beat. The studio version is beautiful and sad. The radio version is at war with its own message
Okay the actual video appears to be decently nuanced, but you were definitely rubbing your hands together going like tihihihihi all evil like when putting that stupid graph on the thumbnail.
I don't believe pop in pop music no longer means popular. Imagine an election with 5 candidates. I candidate has 2 votes, 1 candidate has zero votes and the rest have 1 vote. The candidate with the 2 votes is the most popular even with just 2/5 of the votes. I believe this is what has happened to pop music. It is becoming more irrelevant than "simple."
I think Mic the Snare is conflating complexity with craftsmanship. When we say, "current pop music sux because it's so simple", we're speaking largely to the lack of musical craftsmanship.
pop songs are simple, because they are designed to grab the lowest common denominator of music listeners. And they are getting simpler because (just a theory of mine), there has been an increase in headphone/earphones users in general and the consumer quality, hence we don't need to blast them with complex stuff
Edit: Also realized on the increase of the "vibe" culture where people use music, not for musical purpose, but as a social connecting device, so the easier a song is to sing along or hum along to with your friends and family, the better.
Yo I just watched your ajr discography deep dive and they have a new album and I think you should listen to it and let us know what you think. If it changes anything about them. If it’s better than previous albums. Or any other thing you think about it. 😊
It's not just melodies. Soul in singing and in instrumental is barely there. It feels a lot more artificial compared to Early Noughties.
Whatever it is that happened to music, i don't like 99% of what is being churned out now
Passive use of music on demand has ruined music appreciation.
We have more sounds on more of the time, yet we don't listen.
Really interesting, great points made. I don't think pop chart doomerism is particularly useful however, the argument that complexity reduces in one area to increase in another explains these trends is hardly more provable than 'music is just getting worse'. That being said, I do think that being honest it may really just be that the mid-60s to mid-70s was a golden period in pop music. While the 50s are included in this study I would argue pop music as we now know it didn't really exist until the likes of The Beatles came along. Early Beatles music, for the most part, is not more interesting than top-chart music today. The chord progressions are a little more interesting but the lyrics are generally terrible, the songs are fairly generic, and none of them are particularly great instrumentalists. It's only on Help and Rubber Soul that they start to change and do really interesting things, the rest is history.
I think it's possible that the incredible fragmentation in pop-music over the last few decades has lead to top-chart songs being more generic and 'lowest common denominator' songwriting. Banal and bland have always had more mass appeal than risky, interesting, experimental, and introspective. Are we really going to try to claim that Bon Jovi are particularly more interesting than Sabrina Carpenter or Beyoncé etc? I think that's a tough case to make.
Rick Beato did not agree with this message
5:32 is hip-hop despite your white washing of the song. It's wyclef formerly of the fugees. Altho it's not traditional hip-hop, it's far from Pop.
This has been the case for awhile.
Rap sucks but now there is worse music than rap like hiphop and other similar shit like electronic music by lazy musicians. Ladies dressed like whores with shity electronic music with fake excessive bass and singer speaking instead of singing
It is getting worse even after it was crap already. Its just electronic repetitive noise with artificial bass. Music is melody and rythm is for savages
Good video!
If it lacks diversity, it will stay entertaining for only so long. People will age out of it, then it’ll become the Axe Body Spray of genres until it changes, then it’d be back.
What people tend to forget is that “pop” music is a descriptive genre more than a prescriptive, especially when we use it in this context. So, it’s not that pop music has gotten simpler, rather simple music has become popular.
(Yes I watched the video, I know we dove deeper than that, I’m just riffing on the title)
great video
The people complaining about what's happening with music today would have also complained as classical gave way to romantic (and then to impressionist, if one believes that was a thing)
I SAID WHAT I SAID!!!!!
I realize from the 200th to the 203rd decade(1991-2K 2001-10 2011-20 and 2021-30). I was born 1996 music wasn’t terrible in 96 we didn’t have the Spice Girls even though they debut album was in 1996 but Wannabe wasn’t big hit until 1997. We still had grunge and alternative rock with old school rap. So try 193rd-99th decades(1921-30 1931-40 1941-50 1051-60 1961-70 1971-80 1081-90) I don’t know why people still use inaccurate decades like the roaring twenties 30s 40s 50s 70s 70s 80s 90s 2Ks 10s 20s when there was never a year zero in the zgregorian calendar. This why on the Year 2000 people were disappointed to learn that the millennial won’t actually occur until the following year in 2001. With Y2K putting people into a frenzy over the year and number 00. Many have been in c complete panic over the date as doomsday clock ticks and will stoke at mkdnight on Y2K. As people are panicking over the year Y2K thinking somehow thibe will go back to 1900. Literally people thought they were going to die with the panic button on high alert for Y2K. Turns out the panic and hype silvers all a big mistake and not even worth all the buzz. Plus this is why I say two thousand and ten than twenty ten as the 201st decade was 2001-10 yet zi say twenty-eleven because 2011 was the start of the 202nd decade of the zgregorian calendar. The 20th century was 1901-2K and 21st century is 2001-21H(K for Kilo as in thousand and H as in hundred).
JPEGMAFIA MENTIONED
Honestly, I don't think anyone who uses their ears would find the results of this study surprising. This shift of focus from melody and harmony to rhythm and timbre has been quite obvious.
It's a bit weird that people can't talk about obvious stuff like this without starting a debate about the "decline" of pop music. Of course there are a lot of boomers who argue that "things used to be so much better", but also, a lot of people get super defensive about this stuff, even if no one makes any "boomer claims".
But the truth is, pop has never been the height of musical complexity, and musical complexity is not the reason why anyone listens to pop music any way. Pop is meant to be catchy, fun and danceable. So, I don't see why its lack of complexity needs to be defended.
It actually makes a lot of sense that pop has shifted its focus away from melodies, because other elements probably matter more to people who just want to have fun. Instead of writing a proper (complete) melody, most pop uses melodic hooks. So, one part of the song has a really catchy melody (or melodic phrase) that stays in your mind. But the other "less important parts" focus on other elements. It's about being efficient – you do what is necessary to make the song a catchy hit. Writing a song that focuses on melody all the time is actually not very efficient, because most people are only going to care about the chorus melody any way.
Cette conclusion est énorme (et un brin scabreuse).
Thank god I'm not crazy 😌
So cool to see this use for Markov chains in a completely different area from where I’m used to seeing them! I’ll have to dive into that paper when I have a chance
You are quite generous about how I sound when I sing along :'D
It is getting worse though. But it's not just music, rather art in general. One of the many side effects of neoliberalism. It's the triple A game, the FIFA "X", the MCU, Taylor swift.
Pop has been optimised as a consumer product. Technically (in music, mixing and mastering wise) it is very well-made. But it has no "soul" to speak of. It is deliberately safe, and adjusted to appeal to the widest range of consumers. As profit is the main concern in the creative process there, authenticity dies.
This trend will only continue, probably exponentially so, with the rapid development of audio-generating AI.
What do you expect? Pop music isn't made by actual musicians playing actual musical instruments anymore. It's just a bunch of d-bags with lap tops.
The fact that so many clowns repeat the same Rick Beato joke in this comment section makes me more depressed than my own disinterest in most pop music, cuz it shows how utterly media illiterate and superficial most pop consumers are.
6:18 what about progressive rock though☹️ that’s complex in all aspects I thought ☹️☹️
I don't think we're going to be able to predict the patterns in pop music accurately. The accessibility of both making and publishing music is so much different than even a decade ago and it's only getting easier. The visual elements from artists are almost as important as the sound of the music and what the internet latches onto us so quick moving. I think pop music is just going to continue to be a fun roller coaster.
Omg I used Markov chains in my university dissertation! Wild hearing about them in the real world
Pop “artists” are spawns of Satan sent to earth only to lower the standard
My thoughts at 4:50:
Ok so rap. Rap fits the description.
Ska starts playing
Wait is it ska I love ska it’s my favorite genre!
Mic: It’s rap.
Thang it! I’ve never been angrier at being right.
not this shit again… someone go get Tantacrul…
I remember feeling this way when Del Ray’s Summertime Sadness came out on the radio with the heavy back beat. The studio version is beautiful and sad. The radio version is at war with its own message
Okay the actual video appears to be decently nuanced, but you were definitely rubbing your hands together going like tihihihihi all evil like when putting that stupid graph on the thumbnail.
5 songs per year isn't a lot of data
Did the video need to be presented in such a grating way?
Uh eeh uh ah ah ah
Bing bang wallawalla bingbang
In the next video, can you do "Why is there no new bands that are popular anymore?".
❤
I don't believe pop in pop music no longer means popular. Imagine an election with 5 candidates. I candidate has 2 votes, 1 candidate has zero votes and the rest have 1 vote. The candidate with the 2 votes is the most popular even with just 2/5 of the votes. I believe this is what has happened to pop music. It is becoming more irrelevant than "simple."
I think Mic the Snare is conflating complexity with craftsmanship. When we say, "current pop music sux because it's so simple", we're speaking largely to the lack of musical craftsmanship.
ffs "smooth" isn't by santana, he only played guitar
it was written by itaal shur and rob thomas
Song at 8:47 ?
pop songs are simple, because they are designed to grab the lowest common denominator of music listeners. And they are getting simpler because (just a theory of mine), there has been an increase in headphone/earphones users in general and the consumer quality, hence we don't need to blast them with complex stuff
Edit: Also realized on the increase of the "vibe" culture where people use music, not for musical purpose, but as a social connecting device, so the easier a song is to sing along or hum along to with your friends and family, the better.
We age and don't like what the younger generations like. This is something that has happened literally all through all history.
Human music
Yo I just watched your ajr discography deep dive and they have a new album and I think you should listen to it and let us know what you think. If it changes anything about them. If it’s better than previous albums. Or any other thing you think about it. 😊
Pop music is getting simpler and worse, music might as well be a dead art form